ROSE & IVY Introducing October Starring Rupi Kaur

Hi rupi! I’m excited to talk to you about your career and creative journey. I'm pretty amazed by it. You've touched so many people with your work—you’re an, artist, best-selling author, poet, performer, producer, etc. I'd love to know how ambition, determination, luck, and grace factored into where you are now?

It's a big question, but the first word that came to mind was using my voice. I was speaking with a friend yesterday about why I started writing and why I still feel like writing and it’s because it’s the place where I feel the safest. It's the safest way to communicate because sometimes it's hard for me to verbalize, even with a friend or a partner, I’ll say, I will text you because it’s easier for me to write it out.

When I first started performing in 2009, I knew that I felt very voiceless. I think the world, the universe, works in mysterious ways. I saw this poster for this local open mic night and thought, I should do this. Even though getting up in front of a group of people went against my entire character because I was extremely shy and insecure but I went and did it anyway. I never felt like my voice was ever received and I wasn’t able to practice using it. When I got up there, I read a horribly written poem, to about 20 people in the room. They were all a little bit older than me—eight to 10 years—but they just received it. It was such a life-changing experience. That's the energy you get when you go into those spaces. Everyone's going to be supportive; everyone's an activist. They love young voices and they're going to cheer them on. A group of community organizers crowded around me after and they said, you did so well. Now I laugh, because they're all still my friends, but I think, thanks for lying to me and telling me I was good because I really wasn't (laughs). But because they were kind enough to push me, I kept going. I've just been in this pursuit of using my voice; when I'm performing on stage or when I'm writing something is when I'm the most confident.

When you write about what’s happening in the world, there can be luck and opportunity because sometimes these things cross at the right time. Milk and Honey was a book I wrote as a teenager and self-published at 21. It was largely about my experiences with sexual assault, overcoming it, and learning to heal. The book came out in 2014 and 2015 was when the publisher's edition was released. It picked up and became a New York Times bestseller in 2016, right around the #MeToo movement. You had Trump coming into power and Bolsonaro in Brazil–I think that's when the books got big in Brazil. It was an interesting and unfortunate time for the world. But I think all of these things came together to create this perfect storm for this book.

above Rupi is wearing a dress by Kilian Kerner; shoes by Flor De Maria; ear cuff by Catbird.

I first picked up Milk and Honey, a long time ago and as I was reading it again, it's interesting what moved me in this season of life. One of the things I appreciate about your story is you met a naysayer who said, ‘it’s not possible; you can't do it; it’s not going to happen'. You encountered this when your creative writing professor told you that ‘no one buys poetry books’ yet, you were able to carve your own path by doing exactly that. I’d love for you to talk more about that.

Thank you for saying that. I wasn't even aware that I was carving my own path. I think I was able to do it because I was in love with the art of writing, sharing, and then performing that nobody could get in my way. My professor said, nobody wants to read this, but I knew my 30,000 followers on Tumblr were interested and I loved connecting with them. I thought that was fine with me. I'll share it with them. What I'm realizing now is those were some of the years I was most present doing something I loved. I had nothing to match up to and I did it without any judgment. I didn't know, expect, or even ever dream of being an author—even when I was self-publishing. The book didn’t need to be a bestseller. I wasn't focused on the results and outcome. When you're not focused on those things, you get to be free in your art. I think that's the beauty of the first big project. Then it gets harder to be nonjudgmental and not focus on the results and outcome after that.

I am sure there can be some pressure you put on yourself for all subsequent project to be as successful–it’s like a musician putting out a second album after going platinum. How have you navigated that with your other books?

I felt that second album feeling—I think that’s a good term for it— with The Sun in Her Flowers. I remember arriving to a fresh new journal to write book two and at that point I think millions of copies of Milk and Honey had been sold. It was on the New York Times bestselling list week after week, and for a year at that point. I thought, okay, so not only do I have to do that again, but also, how the hell did I even do that? (laughs) Let me figure out how and do it again. There wasn't an answer that appeared for me. That book was quite a challenge, but I would say that it's taken a decade for me to overcome the pressure. I even felt it with book three, but now I'm coming to the other side. I'm in a place where I can confidently say I've let go, and I'm just excited to write about the things that are just flowing for me, whether the same amount of people read it or not. All I know to be true is that Milk and Honey did what it did because I wasn't thinking too much about an audience. I was completely present with myself and just flowing. I hoped to do that with every book. Finally, 10 years later, I'm beginning to feel that freedom and flow I felt with the first book. This 10-year edition is serving as a bookend to my twenties and the journey I've been on. I am excited about the book I'm currently writing, there's so much freedom in it. I'm finding my voice in the same way that I felt the confidence in my voice with Milk and Honey.

above Rupi is wearing a dress by AS by DF; shoes by Flor de Maria.

I think one of the things that people tapped into is your vulnerability. how has that factored into your success story?

My entire twenties was spent having that journey. I had to learn to be honest because a lot of the time everything looks great from the outside and people think, you probably have it all together, but I spent a lot of time thinking, I actually don't even know what I'm doing and I don't have any answers. The moment I started to say that out loud, I felt very free. In the difficult moments or when I wanted to give up, I would think about my readers who have provided me with so much strength. I could be having a bad day and I run into someone on the sidewalk and they'd share their love with me or tell me they went and self-published their own book. In those moments, I exhale and realize maybe this is worth it.

One of those big moments happened for me on my last world tour in São Paulo, Brazil. It was near the end of the show and I was talking about some of the challenges I was facing. At my shows, people are very vocal, they're shouting things out to me. This one girl screamed, can I tell you a story? Initially, I was a little bit hesitant because you don't know where people are going to go. She said, your book became so big in Brazil that your publishers found me because they were looking for women who wrote about the themes you were writing about. They found me and they published me and now I am one of Brazil's highest-selling poets and that couldn't have happened without this book. She lifted up her book and then women in the room started lifting their book and saying, me too, me too, me too. They had my book in their hand, and a lot of them had her book, and then some even had their own books. My brain was exploding, I was like, whoa, this is what matters. I have to keep writing, even though there are difficult times, we're all having them.

That must have been so palpable and incredible. you mentioned how you started performing on stage for the first time in 2009. What was the catalyst of bringing your words to life?

I was coming out of an abusive relationship that was highly controlling, but I finally escaped it. When you're in that type of relationship, you're silenced. I don't even know how I got out. I was just thankful, something in the universe had given me the courage to leave. During that same month, I was at a local event put on by the Sikh community. It was raising awareness about the Sikh genocide that happened in 1984. There was a gentleman on stage rapping and then there was another Punjabi girl who was singing. I thought, wait, we do this? I'd been locked up in my own mind and in this horrible relationship, but this was blowing my mind. I started following the group who'd put on this event, and they were also the ones who held the open mic. I'd never done anything like that before, I had only performed music at my local Sikh place of worship. I decided I was going to write something. I never even used to call it poetry, performing, or spoken word. I just got on stage and I told a story; I didn't even think too much about it. I remember going up there and just shaking the whole time as I said it. I think it was this innate, desperate need to hear my voice.

I love that. That's incredible. What did you learn about yourself from doing that ?

Even though I’ve been doing it since 2009, every time I get on stage, I'm nervous. I remember in 2017 when we launched The Sun in Her Flowers, my parents were at the New York opening. I was wearing a short dress and at the end of it, my dad said, your knees were shaking the whole time. Even if I wasn't nervous, my body carried that nervousness and you could see my knees trembling. After that I decided I was only going to wear long dresses (laughs).

I would say I only stopped being nervous in 2022 when I went on the world tour and I was doing back-to-back shows. Before I would get a lot of anxiety because it wasn't always natural for me to be the center of attention. I am naturally more shy and introverted. But I think what I did along the way and why I was able to keep doing it was because when I'm onstage, I get to be my biggest, most confident self. I get to be the woman of my dreams. I’ve found little things that have brought me comfort throughout the years. During the earlier years, I would wear a shawl, it felt like it was holding me and protecting me. Then the biggest thing was using humor on stage. A lot of my earlier performance pieces were about violence and sexual assault, and that can get dark, it can get really low. So I brought humor into the show as a way to balance it out and to show I'm just like everyone else and I'm not just talking about this all the time.

But now to talk about Milk and Honey, 10 years ago, you published to much acclaim and this anniversary edition is beautiful. it looks like you literally wrote in my book. inside you have antidotes and follow-ups to the poems that you initially wrote. So what inspired it?

This book has changed the course of my life. When my professor said, no one publishes poetry, I feel like this book helped change that. My life has changed so much. I think about the challenges I've overcome and then I start thinking about my readers. If I've overcome challenges in the past decade, I think about the millions of people who have read this book and who've overcome challenges of their own.

I felt this was a beautiful thing to celebrate because this book, although I wrote it, hasn't belonged to me, it’s been for everybody. I wanted to use this moment to celebrate that. One of my favorite parts is designing my covers but this one was the most challenging. I bought two of my team members for help and feedback. What made it hard was the black-and-white version was so solidified in people's minds. I wanted to add a new spin to it, but also not be disrespectful to the one that's already out there in the world. What brought me here was the challenges we’ve overcome and thinking about the people who relate to Milk and Honey. I wrote it when we went through really hard things and we've overcome those things since. I'm at a place of joy and I'm hoping that my readers are, too. So I wanted to make the cover as joyful as possible, and my color for joy is pink. I added all the other elements hoping that it was a way to infuse life and joy into the black and white version. I didn't want to just write a forward and change the cover because my readers have supported me so much by continuing to buy the books, I wanted to give them more. It feels like it is diving deeper and this edition is like a director's cut.

What is your creative process? Are you somebody who is doing something creative every day?

I would love to be that person, but now as we are gearing up for tour and heading on the road soon, I've stopped writing and I can already see how it's affecting me. I'm a little bit more irritable and disconnected from myself. The process changes with every book but currently, I wake up in the morning and I'll eat a quick breakfast if I can. I have my laptop charged and I’ll go to my local coffee shop, the same one, and I like to sit in the same place. The first thing I do is just write when my mind is the freshest. I write and I write and I write, it's a very spiritual experience. The moment my gut is like, we're done, then we're done. I don't do the thing that I used to where I would punish and push myself. I tried that and then the writing became an unpleasant experience. So then I just shut my laptop. Other times, I get into the flow and I come back to my place and keep editing. I might come back home and keep going for another three to four hours. Then sometimes in the evening something comes to me, I'll pull up my phone, my laptop, or my journal, and when it comes, I'll get it out. I'm realizing poetry is living. The focus is on living and being present so that there is something to write about.

I love that. Where are you most in the flow?

When I'm on stage or when I'm in the midst of writing a really good poem, which doesn't happen very often. I feel like I have to write thousands and thousands of things to get a hundred good pieces of what I think is good. Also, when I'm in the midst of writing something that feels magical to me, it actually is even better when I am on the stage because it feels like there's something not in your control and you're amazed that it's moving through you. That's the best art. You're think, where did that come from? I'm lucky to receive it, keep coming.

What would you say is your current motto or approach to life?

I'm writing about it in my next book, so I don't want to give away too much, but it's been a radically transformative year in my personal life. The motto I'm going with is leading with the heart. I spent a long time leading with my mind, with my brain, and trying to make logical, rational decisions that never necessarily brought me the most joy. So I'm challenging myself to lead with the heart. It's hard because I think, if I lead with the heart, this certain decision will make me happy, but I'm not sure it will do anything else. It's not going to bring me more work opportunities or anything else. Leading with the heart is the thing that I am focusing on the most right now.

What are you looking most forward to the most for your world tour?

I am trying not to think about it too much. I'm just trying to keep the emotions inside for when I'm actually there, but it makes me cry. The last 10 years haven’t fully sunk in. I don't know if it'll ever feel real. I'm just excited to just thank the people who've made these dreams possible for me.

Introducing October Starring Rupi Kaur